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|| < : PART 3 | DEEP SLEEP STATE : > ||

In your deep sleep state this world is not present ; nor it is present in the dreamland ; there is only dreamlessness .

When you wake up , you say that in that deep sleep state is present nothing , nothing , nothing .

Vedanta says , indeed , in that deep sleep state is present nothing . But you know as Hegel has clearly shown ( the Hindus have anticipated Hegel , the German philosopher ) and have proved that this nothing is something ; that this nothing is also the seed body ; this nothing — which you describe in your wakeful state as nothing , this is the seed body , this is the glacier of your life .

As the Bible puts it that out of nothing was something created by GOD , so the Hindus have also shown that out of this seed body , which you describe as nothing after waking up , out of this seed body which you describe as nothing , out of this seed body or nothing , there springs forth or comes out the whole world .

If philosophers come out and say that out of nothing something can never come out , Vedanta says that this which we have called nothing is in reality not nothing . It is called nothing by you only when you wake up .

You know the same word we can interpret , in anyway we like . This is not in reality nothing . It is the seed body . This is like the glaciers .

Now you will say , well , we have understood that out of that deep sleep which we describe as nothing something comes out , and that apparent nothing is the seed body ; but realize the Sun within , realize GOD within , realize Atman which creates out of this glacier of the seed body this whole universe . Realize that Sun or GOD or Atman .

You will ask what this means . Listen please .

When you get up , you say ,

" I slept so profoundly that I saw nothing in the dreams " .

There we say , please write this statement on paper .

Then Vedanta comes up and says that this statement is just like a statement made by a person who said that at the dead of night , at such and such a place , there was not a single being present .

The judge told the person to put that statement on paper , and it was done . The judge asked if this statement was true .

The person said , " Yes " .

" Is this statement made on hearsay , or is it founded on your own evidence ? Are you an eyewitness ? "

The person said , " Yes , I am " .

" All right . Then , if you were an eyewitness and if you wish us to understand that your statement is correct , that there was nobody present , then in order that your statement may be right , you at least must have been present on the scene .

But if you were present on the scene , this statement is not literally true . Literally , the statement is not true , because you being a human being you were present ; at least one human being was present on the scene .

Thus the statement that nobody was present , that there was not a single human being present on the scene , is false , that is a contradictory statement .

In order that it may be true as you wish us to understand it to be true , it must be wrong . It must be wrong because at least one human being must have been present on the scene . "

Similarly when we make this statement after waking up ,

" Oh , I slept profoundly and I enjoyed such deep slumbers that nothing was present on the scene " ;

Rama says ,

" You were present . If you had been asleep , if your true Self , the real Atman , and the real Sun , the real Orb , the real GOD , had been asleep , then who would have borne witness to the nothingness of the deep sleep or chaos of the dream ?

As you bore witness to the nothingness of the deep sleep or chaos of the dream , you must have been present there . "

Thus in your deep sleep state , Vedanta says that there are two things at least to be seen , the nothingness which is like the glaciers or like the seed body and the Witness Light , the Sun , the glorious Atman , the resplendent Self or GOD , which is witnessing all that and shining even upon the desolation of the deep sleep state .

There that true Self is the Sun immutable and that nothingness of the deep sleep state is the seed body which is changeable , mutable , alterable and fickle . Why is it changeable and fickle ?

Because when you come down to the dreamland , when you fall down into the dreaming state , that nothingness is gone , that nothingness is no more . If that chaos or nothing of the deep sleep state had been your real Self , it would have lasted for ever , but it changes .

When you descend into the dreamland , the very capability of changing implies that it is not real . That seed body is not real .

You will be astonished , you will say how this phenomenal world of ours did emanate from that nothing . It is a fact .

You have been thinking matters differently in Europe and America ; you have been taking matters in a topsy-turvy state .

Believe Rama , this is a truth which must permeate every individual , which must enter the heart of each and all in this universe , sooner or later .

Here people are accustomed to take things from the bottom to the top . They want to make rivers flow uphill , the unnatural course .

So you will be astonished at this statement just now made by Rama that out of that nothingness of your deep sleep state comes out your dreamland experience .

You will be astonished . But just examine , just reflect .

Is not that the plan of nature ? Wherefrom did this earth of yours come ?

This earth of yours was once in the nebular state . All this was once in a state which had no form , which was akin to your deep sleep state . It was in the nebular state , it was in a chaotic state .

Out of that chaotic state have sprung up , by slow degrees , your vegetable rulerdom , animal rulerdom , and humans .

Vedanta tells you that what you find in the whole of nature , what you find true from the physical standpoint , the same is true from the metaphysical standpoint .

If this whole world springs from chaos or nothing , so to say , your dreamland and wakeful state also sprang from that deep sleep state or chaotic state , the state of nothingness . Your wakeful and dreaming states sprang from that .

Just so , it is found in the life of every person . When a baby , one is in a state most resembling the state of nothingness , as it were . Out of that state , by slow degrees , one comes into the other state , which you call higher , though higher and lower are relative terms .

What is the rule in the whole universe is the rule with the ordinary life of every person .

Out of the deep sleep state springs this dreaming state . People want to explain the dreaming state as dependent on the wakeful state .

You will be astonished when Vedanta puts matters to you in their true light and shows that all the European philosophers , all your Hegels and Kants cannot explain thoroughly the phenomena of dreams .

We have no time tonight to dwell upon the subject , but this will be proved to you either in a lecture or in a bookform .

PART #1 . . .